Forum: General

I worked on the F-16 for about a year some 5 years ago. We used to crawl into the inlet and check those turbine-blades twice a day after shutdown(stayed in there for about 5 minutes). We used to wait about 10-15 minutes for the air to cool down, and wore a simple 'passive' protective mask.

Lately there has been a lot of fuzz in the media (in Europe anyways) about toxic gases (organophosphate) from turbines. Pilots, crew and people working on oil-platforms having neurological issues. Makes one start wondering, could crawling into that inlet cause long term damage to the central nervous system?

I don't have any serious problems today exept a lousy short-term memory and shaky hands - and I have taken a master degree in computer science since. But still, anyone have any info on this? What's the procedure today? Does those simple masks protect you from anything?

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KNad wrote:

I worked on the F-16 for about a year some 5 years ago. We used to crawl into the inlet and check those turbine-blades

You crawled into the inlet to check the turbine blades? How does one do that? lol Laughing

I would go via the exhaust. Wink

Read this topic...

http://www.f-16.net/index.php?name=PNph ... +hazardous

In the intake you'd have more fuel vapors than exhaust, but JP8 isn't good for you burned, or unburned if you're breathing it in.

Lots in the post about the fuel and exhaust; to quote myself...

That_Engine_Guy wrote:

Have any of you actually read the MSDS for Jet Fuel!?

Exclamation

http://www.valero.com/NR/rdonlyres/194D ... els104.pdf

JP-8 isn't exactly designed as warming fluid. "Danger! Contains Benzene. Cancer hazard. Can cause kidney, liver, and blood disorders. Exhaust Fumes Have Been Reported to be an Occupational hazard due to NIOSH-reported potential carcinogenic properties."

Also... "WARNING: the burning of any hydrocarbon as a fuel in an area without adequate ventilation may result in hazardous levels of combustion products, including carbon monoxide, and inadequate oxygen levels, which may cause unconsciousness, suffocation, and death." You may be outdoors, but standing that close to engine exhaust isn't exactly safe.

There is some BAD stuff in JP-8 and when it burns that same stuff, or some nasty combinations are in the exhaust you're standing in to stay warm! (Naphthalene, Xylene, Toluene, Ethylbenzene, Benzene, etc) "Products of Combustion: These products are carbon oxides (CO, CO2), nitrogen and sulfur oxides (NOX, SOX), particulate matter, VOC's." Chevron's MSDS states "A complex mixture of airborne solids, liquids, and gases including carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide, and unidentified organic compounds will be evolved when this material undergoes combustion."

WTF

Those "unidentified" things will get you.... Don't forget the +100 crap that was (or is still) in the fuel. That MSDS is a "trade secret" and even nastier than the fuel from what I hear!

Do yourself a favor, get some hand-warmer packs, or electric hunting socks.

That Engine Guy sayz - At any rate stay out of the engine and JFS exhaust! Better to be cold today than not see retirement.

Keep YOURSELF safe... Thumb

From what I've read about pilots and flight attendants that issue stems from jet engine oil, which may be vaporized and enter the bleed-air system of the engine used for cabin-air. (Say if a bearing seal near the front of the compressor has a small leak) Jet fuel vapors/exhaust would be down-stream of the bleed-air. (Bleed air comes from the high-pressure compressor which is ahead of the fuel nozzles.)

Best practice is to allow the cool-down (air out) after shut-down. Be sure to leave the intake AND exhaust covers off to promote convection air-flow or wind to pass THROUGH the motor.

Paper/cloth dust masks offer no protection for fuel vapors or organic compounds. In a situation like this they are useless. You may as well placed your hand or a rag over your mouth... Rolling Eyes

Keep 'em flyin' (Safely) Thumb

TEG

Interesting. I've been jumping intakes for 22 years, most of the time just after the engine stops spinning and the pilot heads to debrief. No problems here. Smile

I'm more worried about the toxins coming from the burn pit at Balad. Wink

Weasel_Keeper wrote:

Interesting. I've been jumping intakes for 22 years, most of the time just after the engine stops spinning and the pilot heads to debrief. No problems here. Smile

I'm more worried about the toxins coming from the burn pit at Balad. Wink

You must not be jumping PW-229 engines. I believe the T.O. has a specified waiting period with accompanying WARNING about fuel vapor ignition.

... and I hear you on those burn pits; Balad isn't the only base that has those types of vapors... Mad

TEG

That_Engine_Guy wrote:

You must not be jumping PW-229 engines. I believe the T.O. has a specified waiting period with accompanying WARNING about fuel vapor ignition

Same with F-110’s … I think it’s a reclaimed fuel thing, since you can’t see fuel dump and hit the ramp, they want you to wait before you jump the tube incase of a flash fire. Same with the tail pipe. I can’t remember how many fuel trucks have pulled up behind the jet right after shutdown. Doh

The wc tell you to wait at least 5 minutes after eng shutdown to jump the tubes, I think it even gives the warning for the reason being any possible after ignition of the fumes and possible fireball out the a$$ end. Just like Vark said, I cant remember how many times I notice that the fuel truck parked right behind the tail and that I thank god that that warning didnt include me! Doh

Once when TDY to ZAB I saw a nice fireball come out the tail. Scared the crap out of everyone!

Usually by the time the pilot gets out and debriefs me, I pin his seat, and get the bunny suit on it's been about 5-10 minutes.

Our fuel guys are pretty good about waiting for us to wave them up after shutdown. They're also supposed to wait like 5 minutes because the brakes might be hot too.

Forum: General

Line, toxic gases