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Okay, I was watching this video on Youtube and I stumbled upon an Aggressor video.

So here's the thing, I noticed in the comments that the USN has there own color scheme. Does every service has Aggressors? Or does every base have Aggressors?

I'm Dutch, and I don't think that every base over here has Aggressors. That was my first question, here's my second.

I know it may sound dumb, but I'm not a pilot, I'm 16 and HOPING to become a pilot so cut me a little slack here. What is the whole point of Aggressors?

Some people say dissimilar combat training, but if you put a greenhorn pilot in a Viper, and a Aggressor in an F-5. I think the F-5 will win, purely on experience. Or am I wrong? Any help would be appreciated.

Greetings From Holland,

Tim

P.S. Don't look at how I spelled everything, I'm 16 and Dutch remember Wink

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Tim;

You are right, there is only 2 units in the USAF that flies Agressors; 64 AS (Agressor Squadron) with F-16C's and the 65AS with F-15C/D's
As for the colour schemes for USN vs. USAF, check out the photo galleries and you will see the differences and similarities.
Agressors serve the purpose of providing as realistic air-to-air fighter training as possible, offcourse without beeing actually shot down. The origins came from the poor results in this type of fighting over North Vietnam in the late 60's/early 70's. Do a search for Agressors, and you will find a lot of info around here.
As for you last question, the answer gives itself.

Lets not forget about Constant Peg

http://www.afa.org/magazine/april2007/0407peg.asp

Enthusiast Joined: Feb 13, 2007 Posts: 93 Status: Offline

There are 3 Agressor Squadrons 64 AS with F-16C's and the 65AS with F-15C/D's and the new Squadron in Alaska

Thanks Guys!!!!
Appreciate it!

Greetings From Holland,

Tim

Elite 2K Joined: Jan 14, 2004 Posts: 2615 Status: Offline

A big misconception about Aggressor aircraft, is that the Aggressor pilot is always out to gain a kill on the student. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Aggressors fly enemy style tactics and formations in order to show the students what they can expect to see in a real world scenario many times before they should ever have to see the real thing. Therefore, Aggressors don't always fly the F-15, F-16 or the F/A-18 to its limits, because their job is to simulate the tactics and capabilities of a jet that is likely less capable than the simulating aircraft.

For example, simulating a MiG-29 would be a very realistic simulation for our Aggressors. However, simulating a Mirage F.1 requires the Aggressor to be G and thrust limited. This is why, during the Vietnam era, A-4s were used to simulate the MiG-17, and F-5s were used to simulate the MiG-21.

Aggressor instructors sometimes fly Red Air profiles that they know will lose. Their job, in this case, is to show the students what works, and what doesn't with our adversaries' tactics. Weapons School instructors have said that every once in awhile, they would get a "Tom Cruise" type into the class, who just didn't seem to get it. He wasn't applying what the instructors were trying to show him. Rather, the student saw these DACT engagements as an opportunity to try and get as many kills as he could. The instructors' experience allowed them to single out this student very quickly, and they would break from the profile to give "Maverick" a dogfight he wouldn't ever forget! After doing this, and then undergoing an equally ego-crushing debrief, the student's eyes were opened, so to speak.

Aggressors are a very necessary part of training today's allied fighter pilots. They're there to teach, not to show just how many students they can blow away, as the movies tend to show. The instructors are very capable of doing so, but then, they wouldn't be teaching the students anything, except for how to get your @$$ kicked.

Active Member Joined: Apr 22, 2004 Posts: 144

The Navy and Marines do not have Aggressor Aircraft. The refer to themselves as Adversaries. It does not sound like a big difference but it is to the USN and USMC.

Let me chime in on the aggressor aircraft mission .....

The 64th, 65th, and 18th Aggressor squadrons provide adversary support to US and allied forces. Now most of you know that but lets take this a step further.

The USAF Fighter Weapons School teaches pilots how to master their particular weapons system. The "students" not only do air to air but also air to ground depending on their weapons system and also how to employ not just their aircraft but other aircraft/strike packages as well. This is where the instructor pilots of the weapons school give them cocky pilots their first spanking as mentioned earlier even before they meet the aggressor pilots. That being said the aggressors support the weapons school syllubus but not all of it. You will find that during the final missions of Weapons School particularly the mass employment phase that regular front line squadrons go to Nellis to support not just the aggressors.

Then you have Red Flag exercises.. the aggressors are not the only ones that play red air but are augmented again by other units. Again this is a support function by the aggressors. That being said with the stand up of three flying aggressor squadrons you will now find a dedicated "aggressor" squadron aircraft at these exercises. Those of you familiar with PACAFs COPE THUNDER... after the disbandment of the 26th AS there was no dedicated aggressor aircraft seen at COPE THUNDER until recently. You also found limited aggressor aircraft at Nellis's Red Flag for sometime as well.

Now comes the meat and potatoes of aggressor flying - bringing their jets right to the F-22/F-15/F-16 home base. This is when the aggressors not only teach the new nugget flyers but also refresh the experienced guys and provide face to face one on one briefings for the entire squadron.

Quote:

Nothing could be farther from the truth. Aggressors fly enemy style tactics and formations in order to show the students what they can expect to see in a real world scenario many times before they should ever have to see the real thing. Therefore, Aggressors don't always fly the F-15, F-16 or the F/A-18 to its limits, because their job is to simulate the tactics and capabilities of a jet that is likely less capable than the simulating aircraft.

Adding 2 cents, recently saw a youtube video of USN Vipers and Tomcats in a similar training fight, the narrator concluded that each kill instructors score (and those were fast kills) is an important lesson to the student, well, it must be. TC here is a question, about the enemy tactics, how do we find out about these? I mean how do we know what tactics the Chinese use? Do we study most likely political adversaries around the globe? Do we really study what Jordan uses for a2a combat tactics for example?

Elite 2K Joined: Jan 14, 2004 Posts: 2615 Status: Offline

Some knowledge we gain through previous experience. Some, we gain through...well...you know. Wink

TC wrote:

Some, we gain through...well...you know. Wink

Yep, I figured... Wink

Bushmaster wrote:

Quote:

Nothing could be farther from the truth. Aggressors fly enemy style tactics and formations in order to show the students what they can expect to see in a real world scenario many times before they should ever have to see the real thing. Therefore, Aggressors don't always fly the F-15, F-16 or the F/A-18 to its limits, because their job is to simulate the tactics and capabilities of a jet that is likely less capable than the simulating aircraft.

Adding 2 cents, recently saw a youtube video of USN Vipers and Tomcats in a similar training fight, the narrator concluded that each kill instructors score (and those were fast kills) is an important lesson to the student, well, it must be. TC here is a question, about the enemy tactics, how do we find out about these? I mean how do we know what tactics the Chinese use? Do we study most likely political adversaries around the globe? Do we really study what Jordan uses for a2a combat tactics for example?

as far as jordan goes, i hope your refering to "how our allies operate" because it is imposibble to put jordan as a possible adversary....
any ways

Quote:

as far as jordan goes, i hope your refering to "how our allies operate" because it is imposibble to put jordan as a possible adversary....
any ways

Ally, adversary these definitions change in a quick second considering the nature of politics, Jordan was just an example where we don't hear a big deal about in our daily lives ... Substitute it with Congo or South Africa, or Laos whatnot.

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