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I had to remove and install a JFS about 40 times over the course of three days once, we were trouble shooting a no start problem, and shot it down to the ADG after changing everything we could before that. So repetively removing the JFS doesn't exactly mean that they are doing shotty maintenance. Also we usually don't install the conical seals, personal preference for the maintainer usually. They are such a pain in the back side. Usually we end up having to search the engine bay cause they fell out during installation. So we just leave them out. The JFS doesn't leak if you don't install them. However some cold Petrolatum is very handy when trying to install the whole JFS as that seal on the front doesn't like to stay put.

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Joined: Feb 01, 2007 Posts: 0 Status: Offline

Well repetively removing the JFS for leaks is.

We've been in the same situation for bad ADGs. The flight chiefs never want to hear about a bad ADG, even if we do tell them that it is the only link in the chain that hasn't been changed.

Still don't think our boss would let us ever get to 40 JFS pulls in a week without raising an eye-brow.

You have to admit though, that when you have a JFS no-start, almost everyone you talk to want to know when your going to change it. ESS controllers or fuel-valves are more likely to fail than the JFS.

I did have a fuel leak on the fuel valves that we had a hard time locating that drove about 4 removals till we found it.

I do have a question for you starting system maintainers though. We are getting a new system to replace the TEDEU called the LCPA. Have any of you worked with this?

About 2 years ago when I was stationed at Nellis AFB we had a guy named Abraham from RSL, the company that makes the DESSC, TDEU and the LCPA, visit and give a week long course on the three above mentioned items. He covered the start sytem itself, the time and manhours spent compiling the data for the DESSC program and then how to use all of items. He also gave both of our F-16 AMUs each an LCPA, the software and cables. The briefing cost about $1000 per person, but he came for free because he said he wanted us to know that the two DESSC out there are not the same. He said if he showed us all the things that the RSL DESSC does and can do, that we would be able to trouble shoot and use the the equipment properly and efficiently. At the time our Block 32 aggressors were all having start problems and i'll be damned if after that class I wasn't able to break it all down and get to the true causes of the start problems. Some had 2 or 3 things wrong, which made it seemed like we were chasing ghosts. Don't get me wrong it wasn't the miracle fix all, but it made life easier. One of the things I liked best about it was that I was able to teach the younger guys how to use it enough to where I didn't have to stop jumping tubes, or stop pulling or stuffing a motor just to go download their DESSC. It no longer took a 7-level or a Staff Sergeant to stop go find out the initial problem.

On a side note, Abraham told us that the IDF/AF no longer use their Fuel Bias Valve because their DESSCs are programmed to run the JFS efficiently enough that they do not need it to go uo to 105%. It also helps extend the lives of their JFSs. They also use the LCPA with their Anti-skid system. They download their anti-skid box and troubleshoot it the same way as the start system using the graphs which track signals from each of the sensors. He said it works great for them especially when troubleshooting a dragging brake or obviously an anti-skid failure. Good stuff.

O.T.

Joined: Feb 01, 2007 Posts: 0 Status: Offline

Yes our unit deals with Abraham, he is an excellent rep for his company, very prompt, and very experienced.

I've seen data for/from both DESSCs and I believe "His" DESSC is much better than "Brand-X" The only reason "Brand-X" developed thier DESSC was they had to make something new or risk loosing thier F-16 contracts!?

I'm not going to mention company names due to the competitive nature of contracts. Maybe a non-US Military poster will.....

Bix, are all your TO's digital? Are you guys using ETIMS? If each flightline technician is assigned a tough book, who controls them? Or are they issued just the same as Gortex is?

Enthusiast Joined: Sep 25, 2004 Posts: 24 Status: Offline

At the NJ_ANG the Crewchiefs do all engine removals and installs. JFS work is done by the hydraulic shop.

Newbie Joined: Oct 02, 2004 Posts: 3 Status: Offline

In Tulsa we Crew dawgs take care of all JFS maintenance. As you know LoLo

Later,
Overg

IN ANG, we pull out the JFS as crewchief's and the engine as well, but I dont think we do extensive work on either component, im only still in tech school, and havent pulled a motor, but have done a JFS R&I, so we do take that out, but probably nothing more that that

At Shaw, especially @ the 55th. All our engine guys do the engine work along with the JFS work. Most of the Crew Chiefs are clueless Rolling Eyes

to what a TDEU or a DESSC is. Not to mention, none of them have ever seen the ol' dinasour box. You might get the occasional Crew Chief that has worked the system but we change out everything but the ADG. Gotta give ya some kind of work. Right know we're doing the ol' rivetization so ur almost out of a job, since where crewing jets and changing out APG parts (ex. stabs, tires, just to name a few).

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Engine and/or JFS Maintenance done by?