Forum: F-16 Armament & Stores

When the 35FW deployed to Balad last year they arrived with their right side HTS pods.

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Enthusiast Joined: Oct 03, 2007 - 03:10 PM Posts: 23

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Again a lot of mis-information here. The ANG does not have any AD Litening pods. The DoAF has never sent Litening pods back to NGC for mod to be then given to the ANG. The AD and ANG continue to fly LANTIRN targeting pods at thier training units and will continue to do so for quite some time. Sniper is not just funded with AD money, it is also funded with ANG money. They each buy there own. The circumference of a LANTIRN pod and a Litening pod are the same.

In regard to the circumference of the LANTIRN/LITENING pods. LITENING ARE fatter than LANTIRN. LITENING has a 16 inch diameter or 50 inch circumference and LANTIRN only has a 15 inch diameter or 47 inch circumference. Minor difference but there is one just the same. The adapters (feet) used to upload LITENING are larger as well. The old LANTIRN feet can be used if needed, but there are specially designed ones for LITENING.

Siesta wrote:

When the 35FW deployed to Balad last year they arrived with their right side HTS pods.

Am I missing something here? What's the big deal about this? Haven't they always had HTS?

As a side note: they were flying with left side HTS and Sniper and LANTIRN pods on the right last month in Alaska.

Jake

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Again a lot of mis-information here.

ViperDude

I guess what i am trying to get across here is that if you look at the TGP fleet as a whole, Litening 2-ER-AT-Rover is a Guard and reserve funded project borne in the 90's to fill a realized gap in the ability of the pre-block aircraft to carry smart weaponry. A few units, ie. Tulsa, Ohio, and NM had block 40-42, but the guard and reserve could not augment the AF in the campaigns in the Former Yugoslavia. Litening was seen as a way to allow the pre-blocks to get into the fight. It was never seen as a replacement of the Lantirn system, only an augmentation of it and the AF funded ATP project that would become the Sniper/Pantera.

Sniper, on the other hand is the follow on to the Lantirn TGP and was awarded to Lockheed Martin in the late 1990's. Rafael Litening 1 was its competitor. Sniper ran into major problems in the early 2000's and as such was not allowed use in the second gulf war. Litening equipped guard units (CO, AL, DC) showed the AF how much better the Litening was then Lantirn and now since the Sniper was way behind schedual and still with major problems, they wanted our capabilities. now this is all from a guy that used to be in the pod program, but the AF wanted a 3rd Gen TGP and the Guard/Reserve had them. we, at that point, became 'total force' and they AF procured our Litenings from us to put on the assets in theater. Lockheed saw this as a threat to their product and all of a sudden the Sniper was ready boasting 3.5 gen FLIR! sniper was then put into stateside units and a few select units in theater (but not in iraq) to work out anymore bugs. the reason i said that the pods were returned from the AF to NGC for mod is true because in the mean time, NGC had come up with the D/L version for the USMC. it was then adapted to beam a signal to a preator ground station. so all of the high hour pods in theater then went to NGC for mod into Rover pods while the AF started getting sniper after validation (ie. RMC in Korea '06. also the 8th FW in Kunsan was equipped with them too.)After mods the pods cycled back into guard and reserve units, ie... F-16, A-10, and as such deploy with them in theater.

now this is what i hear when i talk to people. If you grew up with Litening, you love Litening and tolerate Lantirn. if you grew up with Lantirn you love the Sniper. if you have/had Litening, you aren't enthused about having to get sniper. I have worked on all three and i can tell you with out a doubt Sniper has an awesome picture in FLIR, TV not so good. Litening AT has an awesome TV picture, FLIR is not as good as Sniper. Hands down Sniper is a B*tch to work on. I would go with Litening anyday on that. Support, the people at NGC are outstanding! nothing against LM, but they did not do their homework on that one. this is a maintainers point of view also. Like always, the pilots are about half and half on the issue, they all belive, as we maintainers do that both the sniper and the litening are vastly superior to the Lantirn. anyways, i hope this clarifies my remarks.

[quote="Sp4"]

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In regard to the circumference of the LANTIRN/LITENING pods. LITENING ARE fatter than LANTIRN. LITENING has a 16 inch diameter or 50 inch circumference and LANTIRN only has a 15 inch diameter or 47 inch circumference. Minor difference but there is one just the same. The adapters (feet) used to upload LITENING are larger as well. The old LANTIRN feet can be used if needed, but there are specially designed ones for LITENING.

Geez your gonna make me be exact, okay Litening is 16 inch and Lantirn TGP is 15 inch and a SNIPER is 11.9 inch in diameter. Yes, there are specially designed adapter feet for the Litening pod and the the LANTIRN TGP.

Cheers,

ViperDude

Henrik wrote:

Hi ViperDude,

Thanks for setting things straight here!! Will this mean that the AD units will continue to fly Litening pods - and the ANG to continue with the Sniper??

Only the DC and SC ANG units with F-16s fly the Sniper at the moment. I had the impression that Litenings would concentrate in the ANG/AFRC and Snipers in AD/Overseas units?!

Why fly two different pods that do the same within the same unit structure - or am I totally off here??

Okay lots of questions, and a few answers:

All I can say is that AD and ANG will continue to fly with both pods.

Why fly two?, because they are both great pods, they each have their + and - and at the end of the day its good for business, it good to have competition.

Cheers,

ViperDude

Crazyal611

Okay a lot of what you have just stated above is true. But to clarify, the Litening Pod was procured under the PATS program and the SNIPER was procured under the ATP program, two different programs that have now sort of melded into one.

Its is true that Litening pods have evolved from Litening II, to Litening ER, to Litening AT, and now Litening VDL, with 4th Generation just around the corner.

Cheers,

ViperDude

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But to clarify, the Litening Pod was procured under the PATS program and the SNIPER was procured under the ATP program, two different programs that have now sort of melded into one.

yeah it is funny, all the people involved with this, AD, Guard, and Reserve all deal with 'their' pods and work in pretty much the same area at the Pentagon. why they just don't put it all into one office and do it that way i don't know. Rolling Eyes

that is government for ya.

wish i could see the 4th gen Litenings! we are retroverting to F-15's so..... no more TGP's

crazyal611 wrote:

Quote:

But to clarify, the Litening Pod was procured under the PATS program and the SNIPER was procured under the ATP program, two different programs that have now sort of melded into one.

yeah it is funny, all the people involved with this, AD, Guard, and Reserve all deal with 'their' pods and work in pretty much the same area at the Pentagon. why they just don't put it all into one office and do it that way i don't know. Rolling Eyes

that is government for ya.

wish i could see the 4th gen Litenings! we are retroverting to F-15's so..... no more TGP's

What? you mean streamline the process, make thing more efficient, less people, less money what on earth are you thinking of?
Shame on you!
Big No No

Hello guys,

Thanks for all Your great information, but can some of You maybe tell me;

1) Are ANG owned Litenings to be replaced with Snipers??

OR

2) Will ANG F-16 squadrons continue to operate Litenings - what about those few units flying Snipers then??

Greetings,

Henrik.

henrik,

1) no, litening will stay with ANG and reserves for the foreseeable future.

2) yes, as far as the units that have sniper, i could not tell you about that. as more and more snipers are fielded, the strain on litening could ease.

crazyal611 wrote:

henrik,

1) no, litening will stay with ANG and reserves for the foreseeable future.

2) yes, as far as the units that have sniper, i could not tell you about that. as more and more snipers are fielded, the strain on litening could ease.

Thanks crazyal!!

Greetings,

Henrik.

Yes the spang jets did remove the HTS pods once they got there.

They actually landed with HTS, Sniper, and ECM. The HTS and ECM were removed before any combat missions were flown.

Forum: F-16 Armament & Stores

New operational dual pod system - HTS and AN/AAQ-14 LANTIRN