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I made this topic to check you're opions of the boneyard (where the military stores all their planes). Isn't it a waste of material and money? What's the whole concept of it? I'm Dutch so we don't have as many planes as the USAF, so it seems like a waste to me (why don't sell all the Vipers to us Very Happy

) there just standing there... But what's you're opion? I'd be interesting to hear it from an American perspective (all are welcome off course!!).

Regards,
Tim

P.S. I've added a picture of it (and that's not all!!!)

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I know it may not seem like it but AMARG (formerly known as AMARC) is the only enitity in the DoD that actually makes money. They recycle ALOT of parts that are there. Its a great resource for hard to get (or no longer produced) parts.

Seems rather unlikely that the Netherlands would have any interest in buying used jets from the USAF, considering the RNLAF has already sold some of your existing jets to others.

JetTest wrote:

Seems rather unlikely that the Netherlands would have any interest in buying used jets from the USAF, considering the RNLAF has already sold some of your existing jets to others.

Hahaha, I didn't know that, thanks for the info! It would be nice to have some upgraded jets... We now have block 15's or so...

VuijkT wrote:

Hahaha, I didn't know that, thanks for the info! It would be nice to have some upgraded jets... We now have block 15's or so...

Block 15 MLU isn't exactly the same as the original Block 15's you know. Those Vipers may not be as sophisticated as those birds Poland is flying now, but there's no reason to complain about the quality of those Dutch Vipers.

But it kinda hurts to see those F-16's, and even more those F-14's standing there, slowly fading away.
I'd just love to have an F-14 airframe in my backyard! But unless I win the lottery, that's not gonna happen I guess.

Elite Joined: Jul 11, 2007 Posts: 666 Status: Offline

VuijkT wrote:

JetTest wrote:

Seems rather unlikely that the Netherlands would have any interest in buying used jets from the USAF, considering the RNLAF has already sold some of your existing jets to others.

Hahaha, I didn't know that, thanks for the info! It would be nice to have some upgraded jets... We now have block 15's or so...

Tim
Does Fockker still build F-16's? I know we were tooling up for them back in 76 before I came back to the US.

ACMIguy wrote:

Tim
Does Fockker still build F-16's? I know we were tooling up for them back in 76 before I came back to the US.

I believe so, but I will check for you. I'll have some more info later! If I have to I'll just call RNlAF HQ and ask to Dick Berlijn (Commander of Dutch Forces) Wink

.

Regards,
Tim

Elite Joined: Jan 31, 2004 Posts: 1496 Status: Offline

mark wrote:

I know it may not seem like it but AMARG (formerly known as AMARC) is the only enitity in the DoD that actually makes money. They recycle ALOT of parts that are there. Its a great resource for hard to get (or no longer produced) parts.

Too true. For every dollar the taxpayer puts into AMARG, they get $22 back in reclaimed material, parts, spares, etc. Those are 1999 numbers so it may be less now but it's still a healthy rate of return. Thumb

Elite Joined: Jan 14, 2004 Posts: 2454 Status: Offline

It's still a very good spending to return ratio Link. One has to figure that out of the 4 storage levels at AMARG, there is only one level that will not return an aircraft to flying status. However, that 4th storage level, Parts Reclamation, canns parts off of those planes, and can place them on planes still in service, or shipped to allied services for their use.

Long Term, and Flying Hold aircraft are intended to be used again, however Long Term Storage aircraft are typically returned to flying service as drones or sold in FMS. Flying Hold is more immediate. Usually, this occurs when, for example, a unit changes aircraft, and there is no immediate need or space for those planes to go to another base. After a few months, a new home is found for them. Happens most frequently with the Guard and Reserves. "Oh, you're an F-16 unit? Oh, that's nice. Now, enjoy these much older, KC-135s."

Excess of DoD Needs is the other storage level. This involves either selling the plane as is, or, they are scrapped, much like what AMARG is currently doing with the C-141 fleet. All recycleable parts and components are separated, leaving a large pile of scrap aluminum, which can then be melted down, and also reused. Anything from razor blades and soda cans, to a new aircraft can be, and is made with this metal.

BTW, don't hold too much stock in those large pictures of the storage yard. Those pictures are good for one point in time only. For more accuracy, one should take several pictures over the course of one year, and see how much of that equipment actually does move.

Elite Joined: May 26, 2005 Posts: 1093

TC wrote:

Happens most frequently with the Guard and Reserves. "Oh, you're an F-16 unit? Oh, that's nice. Now, enjoy these much older, KC-135s."

Or in the case of the 119th, C-21s. (grumble grumble)

Hi AMCIguy,

This is the Info I could find, on the official Fokker Site. http://www.fokkerservices.com/eCache/DEF/14/270.html

The Military Aircraft and Helicopter Branch has hangars available to perform all types of maintenance and modification activities. They can accommodate 14 jet fighters and 2 to 4 medium size helicopters.

The main activities are:
• Aircraft inspection i.a.w. manufacturer's inspection documents and Technical Orders
• Aircraft repair i.a.w. Manufacturer's Maintenance and Repair Manual and beyond.
• Modifications. All types of mechanical, structural, interior, electrical and avionics modifications. Special modification programs are:
• Avionics upgrading.
• Anti-corrosion program. ( ACOR )
• F-16 Falcon Up. (PACER SLIP)
• F-16 Mid-Life Update.( MLU )
• Health Usage and Monitoring System (HUMS) for helicopters
• Integration of GPS/FLIR/Radar Warning Receiver/Chaff-Flare protection syst.
• Damage repair after incidents or accidents.
• Engine run - Fokker Services can perform any type of engine groundrun.
• Compass swing.
• Aircraft weighing.

Which doesn't helps you very much I think Wink

...

BUT! I did find something on a forum Applause

!

That's if is not profitable royalities can substitute for profitability which is usually very high. Licence building F-16s by Fokker (Dutch) or TAI (Turkish Aerospace Industries), or KAI (Korean Aerospace Industries) was seen as productive by Lockheed Martin. They still got the profits but it's the equal of openning McDonalds anywhere outside the USA. Why not do it if it helps increase profits??? Imagine, since they could build their own F-16s (with a licence) at a much cheaper rate than could be produced in the USA, they figured they could expand their profit margins. It's also true that they did request & in the case of Korea & Turkey in particular want to establish a modern industry. The Koreans in particular equipped KAI (a consortium of Samsung, Hyundai, & others) with high tech. industruments & this meant that Lockheed would actually improve profits if it allowed them to build 160 KF-16C/D Block 52 for a royality each as opposed to 'selling' it to them from US production lines. Note, neither the Dutch, Turks or Koreans can produce without permission from Lockheed Martin, otherwise it would be illegal.

http://www.pakistanidefenceforum.com/lo ... 5-400.html (found almost at the bottom)

So this kind of confirms it (that Fokker still builds F-16's (in case you forgot Wink

)). If you disagree, I will be happy to help you!!

Tim Salute

Elite Joined: Jul 11, 2007 Posts: 666 Status: Offline

Hi Tim
I thought they had started production, I left there just before they started. I worked on the F-27 program after I got out of the AF.
Best place in the world!

Elite Joined: Jul 08, 2004 Posts: 609 Status: Offline

Tim

I don`t think Fokker produce new Vipers anymore - sorry! Wink

Refurbishing, upgrading and supply of spares is one thing, manufacture of new planes another.

The only plant making new Vipers are Lockheeds facility at Fort Worth where all new Vipers are made. If the sale of new Vipers to Pakistan really becomes a reality, some might be produced by TAI.
The Korean production line is also completed, and the only work there is as with Fokkers plant.

As for the story of the RNLAF, check out http://www.f-16.net/f-16_users_article8.html for more info.

As for AMARC/AMARG, their story is quite impressive! Just look at all the Vipers refurbished for the Jordanian AF (ADF's) and spare parts reclamation for others.

Actually quite sad with all the Vipers that Belgium and Holland bought, that only so few are left. Quite an attricion rate, even when considering quite a number were sold to Chile and Jordan. Shrug

There is a new article in Airman Magazine about the bone yard.
https://www.my.af.mil/gcss-af/USAF/AFP40/d/1073755231/Files/editorial/March%2dApril%202008.pdf

Elite Joined: Jan 31, 2004 Posts: 1496 Status: Offline

Another great site about AMARC/AMARG is called The AMARC Experience. Last updated in 2006 so it's not current. Lotsa good pics tho. Thumb

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