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OK gentlemen, stop the quibbling, there is a point to be made here, do not spread out info thats can be easily spread to the wrong hands. If you promote an easy access situation, then someone will take advantage of it, foreign or domestic.

I'll give you an example, during my undrgrad program, I wrote a paper on close air support analyzing the A-10's mission versus the F-4's mission, I had access to Russian SAMS data which was of Vietnam era technology. This paper, got into the hands of a communist feminist who took my paper and made copies of it and sent it everywhere, it had basic trigonometric functions in it. Is this readily accessible? Of course it is, just pick up any physics 101 book and it will tell you, the fact I made it presentable in novice terms, led to a new generation of SAMS about 7 years later, I still can't believe I did that!!! I don't have concrete proof of this, however it makes me contemplate something sometimes, its true Toan, "Loose lips do sink ships", we need to be careful on this site, comments or questions, e-mail peroswar@aol.com.

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Is the F-35 in any danger of cancellation? Surely, the buget issue is having some kind of effect on the it.

Agilefalcon16 - From reliable sources, I do understand all pertinent budget cuts in military aerospace are funds which are being diverted to the JSF. Apparently, its an an important issue since all fixed wing services are getting the aircraft. Will keep you posted.

To all interested parties: something that has not been addressed is the fact we are still receiving F/A22's, could it be we are reaching our inventory tactical limit. Perhaps, this may be the reason for the budget cuts to the program. We (USA) outnumber all nations on this planet with tactical fighters, migs are getting better, M-29, SU-27, they can do the "cobra" maneuver, SO CAN WE! We may be approaching our limit of procurement of F/A-22's, so lets see what happens, there will be many pilot opportunities for young guys to fly and fight in it, so relax guys!!

F-16.net Webmaster Joined: May 23, 2003 Posts: 2366

Note that the original post on the F-22 in this thread has been editted now. Possible sensitive data has been removed.

Enthusiast Joined: Sep 09, 2004 Posts: 26 Status: Offline

There's some incorrect information in the first post, the Raptor has far less fuel than some estimate and it's range has suffered accordingly compared to the original specifications. It's empty weight is about the same as an F-14D, its fuel weight is in the region of 18300 lbs of JP8, and its range both from the official site and other USAF sites and by independant researchers jibes well. Here's a picture of various combat radii of the Raptor and the proposed FB model. It pretty much confirms the range statements mentioned previously.

The empty weight of F-14D is 18,951 kg, which is much heavier than the any estimation for Raptor's empty weight that I've heard before. May you like to tell me where is this information from???

Enthusiast Joined: Sep 09, 2004 Posts: 26 Status: Offline

From a Bill Sweetman article in International Air Power Journal and USAF official sources which have stated empty weight is in the "40,000 lbs class". Very few journalists do i really trust to get figures, but I do him.

http://www2.acc.af.mil/library/factsheets/fa-22.html

Here's a newer (april 7th) article about Gen. Jumper defending the Raptor...

http://www.dailypress.com/news/local/dp ... ocal-final

It says a little bit that the plan to cut Raptor numbers is under assualt in Congress. Man, hopefully they WONT cut that bad boy any more!!!

About the newest information I think for the empty weight of F/A-22 today..........

http://helium.spk.usace.army.mil/ebs/So ... _2/am2.pdf

Page 9:

2.1.13.4 Pavement Design:

The Contractor is responsible to provide pavement design for the project area in accordance with Hill Air Force Base Facilities Design Standards and Geotechnical Support for Design report (see Attachment13).

The heaviest airframe in the facility will be an F/A-22 and they will be moved to different locations within the new ABDR. The empty weight of the airframe is 43,200lbs (19,595kgs). All aircraft brought into the new facility will be empty weighted (i.e., no engines).

POGO declared that the fuel fraction of F/A-22 today is around 29%; and since the internal fuel of F/A-22 now is around 8,000~8,100 kg, its estimated empty weight should be:

8,000~8,100 kg / 0.29 * 0.71 = 19,586~19,831 kg

Hmmmm.......Interesting.................

http://www.klas-tv.com/Global/story.asp ... v=168XQUgV

"At 60,000 feet, it flies higher than any other warplane, can zip along at Mach 2 without an afterburner -- meaning it's efficient so it can stay aloft longer........."

http://www.airplanes.com/forums/showthr ... eadid=1411

"In another place a different Raptor pilot recounted how he performed a split S at 53,000 and Mach 1.98. He also managed to fire an AMRAAM at 40,000ft while pulling a 7g turn. Some sources now say that the maximum height ceiling for the Raptor is up to 70,000ft. This is roughly twice the normal operating altitude of other fighter aircraft."

Just read a piece on the possibility of the F-22 doing SIGINT missions in the style of the SR-71. The Raptor doesn`t have the speed of the Blackbird but it has stealth. Just think about it.... supercruising into enemy territory routed around SAM and radar defences, unseen, the Raptor has some pretty impressive passive equipment onboard to classify threats and pinpoint them. Just as importantly, it has huge processing power to do this .

Stick some active equipment in the bays and you have an EF-22! I think that would be a very effective platform.

F-16.net Editor Joined: Sep 23, 2003 Posts: 2850

Its just another node in the net centric battlefield. Re: Range: The people that really know are the people using it. However consider that it is clean and will zip up I am sure above 40K for cruise, and the fuel economy should be impressive.

Its interesting that the guys flying it are finding out things the Raptor can do that the techies didn`t even think of! Also remember that an aircraft like the Raptor will be developed right through its lifetime like most other US airframes. It`s capabilities will only get better. As an example, there will be changes made to the Raptors radar because of advances in the radar being developed for the JSF....

Enthusiast Joined: Nov 02, 2005 Posts: 72 Status: Offline

I noticed after the raptor was deployed to tyndal an external antenna was added, it's right behind the missile bay. Looks like maybe camera for missile separation from the bay? anyone know?

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